These particular Candis are not to my liking; too "hoity toity" (sp?). But I tend to lean more to the everyday lines. I'm looking forward to the Weekender Sets & the Integrity playlines. Thanks for the pictures, though, I always enjoy looking... Melissa

Thanks for sharing this, Rene. It's always good to look at dolls that have been photographed so well. The overall appearance of this dolls is quite wonderful, it obviously has had a lot of thought and artistry put into its making. She has a wonderful sophisticated and glamorous look that appeals to the adult collector, but frankly I'm not real crazy about the exaggerated eye make-up. What do the rest of you think? Will any of you buy her, and if so, I assume the eye make-up would be part of the appeal, but why?

Best to all Robin

http://www.xynadra.com/bbs/barbie/messages/5754.html

Rene

For my money's worth, the makeup is reminiscent of the Asian Candi done by Mikelman in 1996. What I mean by that is that makeup was heavy and made a sensation because it was so obviously painted. Maybe the blue and pink tones of the eyeshadow were over the top making the makeup was a bit controversial for the times.

So, when I see the screening on this particular Candi, I'm not overwhelmed with awe, but I find what I see appealing. I would like to see the African American with this screening. Is that photo available, too?

What is the marketing direction that Candis are taking to set them apart from Barbie Collectibles' dolls? What is the collector that is being targeted? Rene and Robin, both, refer to something called the "adult" collector. What defines an adult collector and why would Candi appeal to this kind of collector that Silkstone Barbies wouldn't? Or why do both kinds of dolls appeal to "adult" collectors? Just who and what is an adult collector of FASHION dolls?

Rene points out that the appeal these Candi dolls have is that they have an "adult couture look that is different from more mundane looking dolls." Is it possible that Candi dolls have never represented the mundane by virtue of the ethnicities they've tried to capture? What else about them makes them less mundane?

I ask all these questions because my mind's eye is not so attuned to nuances as it once was, and I'm hard-pressed to fully experience Candis today. It could be that the way the dolls wowed me in 1996 has become mundane to me. So I don't mean to throw cold water on any other collector's enthusiasn for the dolls. How do any of you original Candi collectors maintain your excitement for the dolls? And I know there a many of you still on this List that can answer that question. Regards, Pat Brown ----- Original Message ----- From: Rene O'Brien renendollz@yahoo.com To: pa_nz@ pa_nz@yahoo.com; Candi Dolls candichat@dolls.de Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 1:54 PM Subject: Re: look!

I think in this case Integrity is trying something new, instead of giving us what we've seen before. The line is fantastic, IMO, I am picking two up when they arrive in the States. They dolls have a very adult "couture" look about them that is different from the more mundane looking dolls we've seen before. The amount of detail, and quality, the hair styles, and even the packaging of the New Integrity Candis are something not previously seen on the Candi line before Integrity took over, and I am glad to see our favorite gal being raised to a whole new level!

Rene --- "pa_nz@" pa_nz@yahoo.com wrote:

...

Thanks for sharing this, Rene. It's always good to look at dolls that have been photographed so well. The overall appearance of this dolls is quite wonderful, it obviously has had a lot of thought and artistry put into its making. She has a wonderful sophisticated and glamorous look that appeals to the adult collector, but frankly I'm not real crazy about the exaggerated eye make-up. What do the rest of you think? Will any of you buy her, and if so, I assume the eye make-up would be part of the appeal, but why? Best to all Robin

Rene O'Brien renendollz@yahoo.com wrote: http://www.xynadra.com/bbs/barbie/messages/5754.html

Rene

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Robin! I agree with everything you write. Very well stated, too. (You may now return your brain to it's dusty shelf.)

Yeah, I do collect--VERY DARNED LITTLE. This year I bought 3 vinyl little girl dolls. I went through a pseudo-mommy phase. I think the menopause is beginning. And I have bought 3 of the Little Cousins dolls. They remind me of Baby Face dolls from 1990. The line has about 12 dolls, but I bought the 3 that represent my personality. And I'm going to be picking up my DLD dolls from Laura Meisner at the Doll and Teddy Bear Expo next month. These dolls have broken the bank for this year's collecting budget, but I am having every whim and fantasy met with these jewels. I have to believe that a MIB Dollikins can be mine, yet, and it begins with setting the tone for my standards.

I've had to RESTRAIN myself completely from buying Tonner dolls, too. The fashions of those dolls send me! But I'm not quite over the top with the facial screening. But Sydney is a stunner, nevertheless. I buy dolls now that I can visualize where and how in my house they will fit in for display purposes.

Did anyone get this month's Dolls magazine and read that woman's article about how she went about liquidating her years' of doll collecting stuff? I printed out Pat Feick's email she sent to our Lst about her liquidating dolls and stuff and I am determined I won't get more mired with stuff I can't fully see and appreciate.

Dollikins dolls and Valentine vintage jointed dolls definitely wow! me, still. Multi-jointed dolls get me and great faces still thrill me. Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: pa_nz@ To: Pat Brown ; Candi Chat List Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 11:45 AM Subject: Re: look! And Many Questions from Pat Brown

Hi Pat,

As usual you ask good questions. Gets me to pondering, but darn, I was just getting use to those ole cobwebs in the brain. I mean, dolls are about imagination and escapism, right? and here you go wanting us to think, lol. Well, I reckon there is no "definitive" answer for what an "adult" collector is because tastes in dolls are so diverse, as is the reason we want to collect (deboxers who play; purists who (what?) and wouldn't dream of deboxing). I think we coin the term "adult" as a simple way of separating the dolls we would allow children to play with (usually inexpensive) and the dolls adults collect (usually more expensive). Children beat up their dolls in the normal course of play, whereas adults handle their dolls with a mind to protecting them (either for their aesthetics or for their monetary value). "Adult" collectors usually want a doll with an adult appearance, the sculpt needs to be more chiseled, the clothes more haute couture, the allure somewhat sexy, the appearance sophisticated. I think we prefer children to play with simpler, less sexualized versions. Does anyone have a differing viewpoint or definition?

I started collecting Candi in 98/99 but haven't bought a new one in two years. I don't retain the initial excitement I had for her because I've been wowed by the fresh and enticingly mature 16" Tonner dolls. However, Candi remains my fav 11.5" doll. I've gotten into digital photography, Photoshop, webpages and dioramas. The whole process is very creative and while I am amateurish and have a lot to learn, it allows me to use my dolls in a new and delightful way. Candi's grown-up appearance is useful for my scenes because of her versatility, she can be switched from plain to sexy with a change of outfit/hair style, and I guess that's why I don't like the new Candi with the exaggerated eye makeup, her appearance can't be changed.

What is the marketing direction of Integrity/Hamilton? What collector is being targeted? I don't know. They haven't met my expectations, hence I haven't bought a new Candi in two years. I think the Silkstones are well done but I'm not into a '50/60's theme and wouldn't know how to play with her, though I have bought a couple of them for the outfits/accessories.

Pat, do any dolls wow you? Do you still collect?

Best to all Robin

Pat Brown nqsqurtz@staffnet.com wrote:

For my money's worth, the makeup is reminiscent of the Asian Candi done by Mikelman in 1996. What I mean by that is that makeup was heavy and made a sensation because it was so obviously painted. Maybe the blue and pink tones of the eyeshadow were over the top making the makeup was a bit controversial for the times.

So, when I see the screening on this particular Candi, I'm not overwhelmed with awe, but I find what I see appealing. I would like to see the African American with this screening. Is that photo available, too?

What is the marketing direction that Candis are taking to set them apart from Barbie Collectibles' dolls? What is the collector that is being targeted? Rene and Robin, both, refer to something called the "adult" collector. What defines an adult collector and why would Candi appeal to this kind of collector that Silkstone Barbies wouldn't? Or why do both kinds of dolls appeal to "adult" collectors? Just who and what is an adult collector of FASHION dolls?

Rene points out that the appeal these Candi dolls have is that they have an "adult couture look that is different from more mundane looking dolls." Is it possible that Candi dolls have never represented the mundane by virtue of the ethnicities they've tried to capture? What else about them makes them less mundane?

I ask all these questions because my mind's eye is not so attuned to nuances as it once was, and I'm hard-pressed to fully experience Candis today. It could be that the way the dolls wowed me in 1996 has become mundane to me. So I don't mean to throw cold water on any other collector's enthusiasn for the dolls. How do any of you original Candi collectors maintain your excitement for the dolls? And I know there a many of you still on this List that can answer that question. Regards, Pat Brown ----- Original Message ----- From: Rene O'Brien To: pa_nz@ ; Candi Dolls Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 1:54 PM Subject: Re: look!

> I think in this case Integrity is trying something > new, instead of giving us what we've seen before. The > line is fantastic, IMO, I am picking two up when they > arrive in the States. They dolls have a very adult > "couture" look about them that is different from the > more mundane looking dolls we've seen before. > The amount of detail, and quality, the hair styles, > and even the packaging of the New Integrity Candis are > something not previously seen on the Candi line before > Integrity took over, and I am glad to see our favorite > gal being raised to a whole new level! > > Rene > --- "pa_nz@" wrote: > > > > Thanks for sharing this, Rene. It's always good to > > look at dolls that have been photographed so well. > > The overall appearance of this dolls is quite > > wonderful, it obviously has had a lot of thought and > > artistry put into its making. She has a wonderful > > sophisticated and glamorous look that appeals to the > > adult collector, but frankly I'm not real crazy > > about the exaggerated eye make-up. What do the rest > > of you think? Will any of you buy her, and if so, I > > assume the eye make-up would be part of the appeal, > > but why? > > Best to all > > Robin > > > > Rene O'Brien wrote: > > http://www.xynadra.com/bbs/barbie/messages/5754.html > > > > Rene > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free > > http://sbc.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Do You Yahoo!? > > New! SBC Yahoo! Dial - 1st Month Free & unlimited > access > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free > http://sbc.yahoo.com > >

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collector. What defines an adult collector and why would Candi appeal to this kind of collector that Silkstone Barbies wouldn't? Or why do both kinds of dolls appeal to "adult" collectors? Just who and what is an adult collector of FASHION dolls?

I looked at the back of one of my Barbies billed as for the adult collector & on this part. box , it went on to explain, those over 14 yrs. old. I think they might mean more went into the making of this doll & her costume...that it may be hard to dress her, maybe the dress is even sewed onto her. that it's too expensive for a child to be playing with. One of the new Candi dolls has a turtleneck type sweater which you can't remove without taking her head off...1st time I ever removed a Candi head. the doll may look too sophisticated ( sexy? _) for the average child to like. It's still thought, by the doll manufact. , I think , that the average child likes a smiling blonde with extra long hair...can you see the average child liking that cold face of the Gene doll? Speaking of which, I just saw at our local Dollar Tree store, that they have the book 'Gene Marshall, girl star' ...selling it for a dollar...kind of cute ..sort of a bio of the Gene doll, certainly I'd pay a dollar for it...I have a few genes...loved the clothes she was wearing if not the doll & t'was on sale. Just went to a doll show in Hotlanta & bought some Silkstone dolls & their clothes, for lower prices than I've been seeing elsewhere ( must have been 6 diff. dealers there all selling these same dolls at all diff. prices) I was told to be careful with these dolls as they are breakable. The AA is beautiful to me a s are most AA dolls in my opinion ...with her combo hairstyle of swirl & Am. Girl & I got that blonde with the flirty little curls all over her head.. very flapper or Betty Boop to me..got the black dress which is gorgeous & that plain blue dress but got it more for the manikin & assess. Saw the Emme doll as Robt. Tonner was there signing dolls. She's a fine looking unique doll but I don't know if I'll pay those high prices... one Emme doll was dressed in a floral dress which added to her heft , in my opinion & another one was dressed in black, which seemed very slimming..just as in real life.......would have loved to get a Wentworth but they were all just about at high prices tho everyone seemed to have their Genes on sale from 20-50 % off. Saw some gorgeous antique dolls but esp. was surprised to see those antique German dollhouse kitchens you normally see just in books...going for 1000's of dollars. Pat H

Pat,

Sounds like a great show - I would love to be able to live where they have more shows. I hate to sound stupid but I never knew the Silkstone dolls were breakable. I had ordered two brunettes but didn't really like that vintage look either and ended up sending them back.

Karla

----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Bradford ebradfrd@crosslink.net To: Pat Hawkins jhawkins1320@charter.net Cc: Candi Chat List candichat@dolls.de Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 12:25 PM Subject: Re: Hotlanta doll show

Sounds like an interesting doll show, Pat! I haven't been to one in over a year. They are getting so scarce & then I had to move the day of the one I was hoping to go to... Melissa

...

Just went to a doll show in Hotlanta & bought some Silkstone dolls & their clothes, for lower prices than I've been seeing elsewhere ( must have been 6 diff. dealers there all selling these same dolls at all diff. prices) I was told to be careful with these dolls as they are breakable. The AA is beautiful to me a s are most AA dolls in my opinion ...with her combo hairstyle of swirl & Am. Girl & I got that blonde with the flirty little curls all over her head.. very flapper or Betty Boop to me..got the black dress which is gorgeous & that plain blue dress but got it more for the manikin & assess. Saw the Emme doll as Robt. Tonner was there signing dolls. She's a fine looking unique doll but I don't know if I'll pay those high prices... one Emme doll was dressed in a floral dress which added to her heft , in my opinion & another one was dressed in black, which seemed very slimming..just as in real life.......would have loved to get a Wentworth but they were all just about at high prices tho everyone seemed to have their Genes on sale from 20-50 % off. Saw some gorgeous antique dolls but esp. was surprised to see those antique German dollhouse kitchens you normally see just in books...going for 1000's of dollars. Pat H

Oh it sure can be such a damn chore trying to remove those Barbies from their boxes!! Fortunately the silkstones are much easier to remove as are the Candis. My childhood was the superstar Barbie era and it took me quite some time to get used to the look of the original vintages. But personally, I love the silkstones. Though they have a vintage look, they can still carry off wearing the latest FA!

I just think it's fun to try the same outfit on different dolls as they each give them their own look. But often I do feel like many of the FA's seem to look better on the Candis.

Lunar

===== http://members.tripod.com/lunarwolfess

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au - Find yourself a bargain!

LOL Dind't say it was a hard and fast rule!! LOL I agree about the variety though. I think that is another reason I only bought two of the silkies. It is like having too many Genes. Who needs all their dolls to look alike. I have one shelf that every doll on it has a different face mold. Makes for a very interesting display.

At 09:07 AM 7/17/2002 -0400, you wrote:

Hi, Kathy & all, I also grew up with the original Barbie & even had a Twist & Turn and a Francie, but I really don't like the faces & mod styles & don't collect them. Sure there are good memories, but I like the variety of collecting faces that are real & varied. I have lots of Asian, AA, Candi, Integrity, etc. faces. Smiling Babs is also boring & that blond hair; I prefer redheads & ethnic styles like the Kenyan Barbie & others. Melissa

...

I notice that if you grew up with vintage and mod, you are more likely to like that look now. I personally can't stand the smiley blonds, but I never had one as a kid, and if you ask me, that is NOT what Babs looks like!

Frivolities Antiques Ft. Collins, CO

Thanks for the info. I did spend most of my childhood with Babs. In the late sixties my friends and I played Barbies until we were in seventh grade! We could have cared less about boys, LOL. I bought the Grand Entrance Barbie first addition and got it for $19.99 At KayBee. I only bought her because I really liked the new one in peach. But now when I see the new doll I am having second thoughts - mostly about putting out the money. I am stunned that you said her clothing was sewn on !!! Where at? I've never heard of any clothing stitched to any dolls except obviously cloth ones. Please let me know - she may be going back on a rail, ha ha. ----- Original Message ----- From: Mroczko mroczko@verinet.com To: candichat@dolls.de Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 8:09 AM Subject: Re: silkstones

Hi All, Yep it is possible to break the silkstones. I hear dropping them is not a good idea. I only have two, but I do adore them. I notice that if you grew up with vintage and mod, you are more likely to like that look now. I personally can't stand the smiley blonds, but I never had one as a kid, and if you ask me, that is NOT what Babs looks like! I will say one thing for the Silkies, they sure have revived an interest that was

flagging

pretty badly. I loved the original concept of a longerie doll and then outfits, but now that the outfits are so expensive, I haven't been buying them. Not like I can't find other clothes for them. Right now my

brunette

is in one of those cute little Hip to Be Square outfits. I am sure many silkie collectors would be offended, but she looks cute. I think it was high time that Mattel gave collectors the option to play with our dolls. On a side note, we got a Grand Entrance Barbie doll at convention.

This

doll was supposed to lure people into the collecting feild as their first collector doll, and when you debox it, you find that her dress is sewn on! Talk about fostering NRFB behavior. LOL I think this is another reason I have been so happy with Jason and the Candis. Love the little ribbons.

It

is not a chore to remove the doll, but a joy.

Kathy M.

At 10:00 PM 7/16/2002 -0400, you wrote:

...

Pat,

I hate to sound stupid but I never knew the Silkstone dolls

...

were breakable. I had ordered two brunettes but didn't really like that vintage look either and ended up sending them back.

...

Frivolities Antiques Ft. Collins, CO

Hi,

I totally agree with both of you, Robin and Kathy, regarding the absolutely rediculous way Babs is attached to her box. I've recently started to debox some of the "play" dolls that I am going to dress in FA clothes and it takes forever to get the doll out - even the simplest one without a lot of gadgets, etc., like Pet Lover Barbie. By the time I get done getting her out of the box I am so aggrevated that I don't feel like playing then. The biggeset thing that Mattel does that drives me nutsy is the sewing of the hair. You either have to cut the plastic strip out thread by thread or just pull real hard and hope it wil rip off.LOL

Karla ----- Original Message ----- From: pa_nz@ To: Candi Dolls Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 7:29 PM Subject: Deboxing

Hi,

I agree with Kathy, I think Mattel ties dolls in tighter than a drum! I bought two bridal collector series dolls for their dresses and it was a tug of war getting the dolls deboxed and free of their clothes and accessories. I think a broke a sweat working at it. Why do they do that?

Robin

Mroczko mroczko@verinet.com wrote:

Hi All, Yep it is possible to break the silkstones. I hear dropping them is not a good idea. I only have two, but I do adore them. I notice that if you grew up with vintage and mod, you are more likely to like that look now. I personally can't stand the smiley blonds, but I never had one as a kid, and if you ask me, that is NOT what Babs looks like! I will say one thing for the Silkies, they sure have revived an interest that was flagging pretty badly. I loved the original concept of a longerie doll and then outfits, but now that the outfits are so expensive, I haven't been buying them. Not like I can't find other clothes for them. Right now my brunette is in one of those cute little Hip to Be Square outfits. I am sure many silkie collectors would be offended, but she looks cute. I think it was high time that Mattel gave collectors the option to play with our dolls. On a side note, we got a Grand Entrance Barbie doll at convention. This doll was supposed to lure people into the collecting feild as their first collector doll, and when you debox it, you find that her dress is sewn on! Talk about fostering NRFB behavior. LOL I think this is another reason I have been so happy with Jason and the Candis. Love the little ribbons. It is not a chore to remove the doll, but a joy.

Kathy M.

At 10:00 PM 7/16/2002 -0400, you wrote: >Pat, > I hate to sound stupid but I never knew the Silkstone dolls >were breakable. I had ordered two brunettes but didn't really like that >vintage look either and ended up sending them back. > >> >> > > > Frivolities Antiques Ft. Collins, CO

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I agree; those plastic tags are the worse. If you succeed in not cutting off her hair in the process, then there is that pointed thing sticking out of her head. How do children get them out to play with them? Melissa

And what's even worse is when they also attach those to plastic thingy to her head that you have to snip off and try not to cut any of her off at the same time.

Lunar

===== http://members.tripod.com/lunarwolfess

Oh how funny, LOL. I had completely forgotten about those plastic tags. Why do they have to put those on there?? To keep the head on?? ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Bradford ebradfrd@crosslink.net To: Lunar lunarwolfess@yahoo.com.au; k towers@eticomm.net; pa_nz@ pa_nz@yahoo.com; Candi Dolls candichat@dolls.de Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2002 8:11 AM Subject: Re: Deboxing

I agree; those plastic tags are the worse. If you succeed in not cutting

off

her hair in the process, then there is that pointed thing sticking out of her head. How do children get them out to play with them? Melissa

...

And what's even worse is when they also attach those to plastic thingy to her head that you have to snip off and try not to cut any of her off at the same time.

Lunar

===== http://members.tripod.com/lunarwolfess

I've heard that it's a requirement for overseas shipping. Everything has to be anchored in and down and nothing can move. I don't know that his is entirely true because I do know that Genes are usually gently tied in their boxes with just a ribbon, so maybe it has something to do with the dolls are considered toys for children--even if the packages do say "recommended for collectors 14 years and older." Pat Brown ----- Original Message ----- From: pa_nz@ To: Candi Dolls Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 7:29 PM Subject: Deboxing

Hi,

I agree with Kathy, I think Mattel ties dolls in tighter than a drum! I bought two bridal collector series dolls for their dresses and it was a tug of war getting the dolls deboxed and free of their clothes and accessories. I think a broke a sweat working at it. Why do they do that?

Robin

Did you take any pictures? It sounds wonderful. Where did you say it was? Hotlanta? Huh? I love the Emme doll, love her softic body, think her fashions are to die for. Emme's

I took no pictures, sorry. Emme had about 4 or 5 outfits shown, a great black cocktail one & black slack outfit, the floral cocktail & can't remember others. Hotlanta is Atlanta GA.

Personally I LOVE these! I think they are the best Candi dolls ever made. Abotu the exaggerated makeup, I think it suits the dramatic nature of the doll, and is beautifully done. Nice to see Candi change with time.

IMHO the older pre- Integrity Candis had even more exaggerated makeup such as China Girl and others.

Rene --- k towers@eticomm.net wrote:

What a great picture!! I absolutely love her and have to have her ASAP!! I love the make-up - bring her on!!!!!

Thanks, Karla -

• Original Message -----

From: Rene O'Brien renendollz@yahoo.com To: candichat@dolls.de Sent: Monday, July 08, 2002 11:56 PM Subject: look!

...

http://www.xynadra.com/bbs/barbie/messages/5754.html

...

Rene

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Greetings, Queen Diva! Glad you are on the road to recovery. Hang in there! Melissa

Hi, Everyone!

It's been a long time since I've posted to the list but most of you know that I've been ill. Well, after deciding to crawl upstairs and logon, I cruised many of the 1000's of messages and I must say, this doll is beautiful. The eyemakeup is a bit much but this is fantasy/dolls we're talking about.

Hi, Suzanne, please contact me if you have these dolls in stock and/or if

we

have any unfinished business.

Nice to see you all again and thank those of you who prayed for me. It's been a long, hard, road, and I'm still not quite there yet, but I'm so

close

to the finish line, I won't quit now.

Hugs, Hugs, Hugs,

CarolM/Queendiva/lpsnhps@cybernex.net