Scott:
I'm just looking for Pascal compilers that run on macOS. My programs follow the original compilers in which the files listed at the top of the program are directly read and written to by the Pascal program. GPC used to do this. P2C (which I maintain apparently) translates to C and then provides this. I don't know what ISO that corresponds to.
For your second point, I assume you are talking about the Pascal-P1-P6 thing? (not sure I understand your point about "name change breaks the code")
I write scripts that call compilers with the parameters needed to compile my programs. If the name of the compiler changes then the scripts break. For example, if the Unix 'ls' command were named ls763 and then a new version were named ls764 lots of code would break.
Can Pascal-P be used on the Mac? Well, actually yes. Pascal-P6 includes sufficient tooling to port without GPC (see the interpreter written in C). I don't really push that capability because P6 is still in development, and also because interpreters are not really my thing (yes, I know that sounds funny). I like compilers. To me interpreters are more of a fun toy than not, although I note that there is a group pushing interpreters as "VM"s for professional use. Pascal-P5 has actually been written up as such. Again, not bad, just not my thing.
Ok, maybe when P6 is stablized and GPC independent it can be used to compile on macOS.
I should mention there is a branch from P5 known as P5c that that changed the compiler into a Pascal to C translator that accomplishes porting in a different way. You would have to look into that yourself, I'm not really up to speed on that.
That's interesting, thanks.
https://sourceforge.net/projects/pascal-p5c/
Tom
Thomas D. Schneider, Ph.D. Senior Investigator National Institutes of Health National Cancer Institute Center for Cancer Research RNA Biology Laboratory Biological Information Theory Group Frederick, Maryland 21702-1201 schneidt@mail.nih.gov https://alum.mit.edu/www/toms
Thomas,
Yes, I would not mind a decent Mac OS compiler as well. I used to think I would move all of my work to MacOS, generally being a better OS that the others, but these days I am to heavily involved with Linux to do that. In any case, I have all three types of machines (and then some) here at my house, Windows, Linux and Mac, so its just a matter of what I need at the moment. In any case, I have sympathy for your position.
FPC certainly qualifies as a cross platform OS, and I believe it runs well on MacOS?? I have never tried it. In the past it was always a big deal to convert the source, but nowadays, with the ISO 7185 mode, that should be a lot less work. It really depends on FPC. I know with some other compilers, the ISO 7185 switch enabled standard mode, but locked you into "ISO 7185 jail", ie, made it inconvienent or impossible to use their extensions unless you drop the option, in which case most of your source would not compile, etc. Perhaps someone with FPC experience could weigh in here.
Believe me I have been there myself. I used to keep a file called "basicio.pas" where I kept all of the nonstandard procedures used to access OS functions like open and close files, etc. Then I would have one of those per compiler installation/vendor. Because a lot of Pascal compiler makers had a string type that was incompatible with pascal string types (which is in fact "packed array [1..xxx] of char") the open file function often translated the Pascal string to whatever the string type was on the particular implementation (point of fact there are things like that in Pascal-P6 to allow GPC calls).
Your association with P2C interests me. I used that to translate Pascal libraries for Petit-Ami (another one of my projects). The tool is awful. It crashes if you give it any sources that are even slightly wrong, and the (original) author takes pains to mention in the documentation that he knows quite well about this and does not, in fact, care. I wonder if you had improved that situation?
"I write scripts that call compilers with the parameters needed to compile my programs. If the name of the compiler changes then the scripts break."
Well, ok, but note that the name for my project is Pascal-P5, has been so for 10 years, and will always be named that. Pascal-P6 is a whole 'nuther beast entirely. At my development rate (glacial) I don't think anyone is going to need to rewrite their scripts a lot.
Regards,
Scott Franco
--------- Original Message --------- Subject: Re: Plan to Update GPC From: "Schneider, Thomas (NIH/NCI) [E]" schneidt@mail.nih.gov Date: 8/13/20 8:28 am To: "scott andrew franco" samiam@moorecad.com, "gpc@gnu.de" gpc@gnu.de
Scott:
I'm just looking for Pascal compilers that run on macOS. My programs follow the original compilers in which the files listed at the top of the program are directly read and written to by the Pascal program. GPC used to do this. P2C (which I maintain apparently) translates to C and then provides this. I don't know what ISO that corresponds to.
For your second point, I assume you are talking about the Pascal-P1-P6 thing? (not sure I understand your point about "name change breaks the code")
I write scripts that call compilers with the parameters needed to compile my programs. If the name of the compiler changes then the scripts break. For example, if the Unix 'ls' command were named ls763 and then a new version were named ls764 lots of code would break.
Can Pascal-P be used on the Mac? Well, actually yes. Pascal-P6 includes sufficient tooling to port without GPC (see the interpreter written in C). I don't really push that capability because P6 is still in development, and also because interpreters are not really my thing (yes, I know that sounds funny). I like compilers. To me interpreters are more of a fun toy than not, although I note that there is a group pushing interpreters as "VM"s for professional use. Pascal-P5 has actually been written up as such. Again, not bad, just not my thing.
Ok, maybe when P6 is stablized and GPC independent it can be used to compile on macOS.
I should mention there is a branch from P5 known as P5c that that changed the compiler into a Pascal to C translator that accomplishes porting in a different way. You would have to look into that yourself, I'm not really up to speed on that.
That's interesting, thanks.
https://sourceforge.net/projects/pascal-p5c/
Tom
Thomas D. Schneider, Ph.D. Senior Investigator National Institutes of Health National Cancer Institute Center for Cancer Research RNA Biology Laboratory Biological Information Theory Group Frederick, Maryland 21702-1201 schneidt@mail.nih.gov https://alum.mit.edu/www/toms
FPC certainly qualifies as a cross platform OS, and I believe it runs well on MacOS?? I have never tried it. In the past it was always a big deal to convert the source, but nowadays, with the ISO 7185 mode, that should be a lot less work. It really depends on FPC. I know with some other compilers, the ISO 7185 switch enabled standard mode, but locked you into "ISO 7185 jail", ie, made it inconvienent or impossible to use their extensions unless you drop the option, in which case most of your source would not compile, etc. Perhaps someone with FPC experience could weigh in here.
The problem are keywords. E.g. uses is valid identifier in ISO Pascal so it cannot be used as keyword to include units etc. Besides this, FPC does not disable non ISO extensions in ISO mode.
Excellent. And I also know that you have put a lot of work into that mode.
I'd like to get some more time to play with the FPC ISO 7185 mode.
Scott Franco
--------- Original Message --------- Subject: Re: Plan to Update GPC From: "florian@freepascal.org" florian@freepascal.org Date: 8/13/20 10:48 am To: "gpc@gnu.de" gpc@gnu.de
FPC certainly qualifies as a cross platform OS, and I believe it runs well on MacOS?? I have never tried it. In the past it was always a big deal to convert the source, but nowadays, with the ISO 7185 mode, that should be a lot less work. It really depends on FPC. I know with some other compilers, the ISO 7185 switch enabled standard mode, but locked you into "ISO 7185 jail", ie, made it inconvienent or impossible to use their extensions unless you drop the option, in which case most of your source would not compile, etc. Perhaps someone with FPC experience could weigh in here.
The problem are keywords. E.g. uses is valid identifier in ISO Pascal so it cannot be used as keyword to include units etc. Besides this, FPC does not disable non ISO extensions in ISO mode.
_______________________________________________ Gpc mailing list Gpc@gnu.de https://www.g-n-u.de/mailman/listinfo/gpc
Scott:
Yes, I would not mind a decent Mac OS compiler as well. I used to think I would move all of my work to MacOS, generally being a better OS that the others, but these days I am to heavily involved with Linux to do that. In any case, I have all three types of machines (and then some) here at my house, Windows, Linux and Mac, so its just a matter of what I need at the moment. In any case, I have sympathy for your position.
Though I'm now using macOS for all my machines, I'm not wedded to it. If Apple keeps doing stupid things (like preventing one from doing ls in ~/.Trash/ !!!) then eventually I'll be forced to migrate away to Linux. I avoid the evil empire.
FPC certainly qualifies as a cross platform OS, and I believe it runs well on MacOS??
It does run, but because they have a legacy of bells and whistles it doesn't comple vanilla Pascal from 1982 (ISO 7185?) ... Since p2c will compile bad code and produce garbage without warning (!) I use FPC as an error checker and then if the program passes I give it to p2c. The script for this is not public. The FPC folks are working on getting my programs to compile properly so eventually I may be able to use that.
mode, but locked you into "ISO 7185 jail", ie, made it inconvienent or impossible to use their extensions unless you drop the option, in which case most of your source would not compile, etc. Perhaps someone with FPC experience could weigh in here.
I have intentionally avoided system dependent extensions (except for date/time) and as a result my programs written 30+ years ago still compile ... I built a 'module' system that uses comments to mark sections of code and inserts the sections from a library into a program. This way I'm not dependent on compiler dependent insertion commands. https://alum.mit.edu/www/toms/delila/module.html
Your association with P2C interests me. I used that to translate Pascal libraries for Petit-Ami (another one of my projects). The tool is awful. It crashes if you give it any sources that are even slightly wrong, and the (original) author takes pains to mention in the documentation that he knows quite well about this and does not, in fact, care. I wonder if you had improved that situation?
No, I provide the original with minor changes only. https://alum.mit.edu/www/toms/pascalp2c.html
"I write scripts that call compilers with the parameters needed to compile my programs. If the name of the compiler changes then the scripts break."
Well, ok, but note that the name for my project is Pascal-P5, has been so for 10 years, and will always be named that. Pascal-P6 is a whole 'nuther beast entirely. At my development rate (glacial) I don't think anyone is going to need to rewrite their scripts a lot.
Ok, cool.
Tom
Thomas D. Schneider, Ph.D. Senior Investigator National Institutes of Health National Cancer Institute Center for Cancer Research RNA Biology Laboratory Biological Information Theory Group Frederick, Maryland 21702-1201 schneidt@mail.nih.gov https://alum.mit.edu/www/toms
"
FPC certainly qualifies as a cross platform OS, and I believe it runs well on MacOS??
It does run, but because they have a legacy of bells and whistles it doesn't comple vanilla Pascal from 1982 (ISO 7185?) "
I'd like some more details on that. I have very extensive testing services with Pascal-P5, and FPC passes, or did pass, my ISO 7185 tests.
You can also just compile your stuff with Pascal-P5. As mentioned, it is perhaps the most rigorous test of ISO 7185 compliance you will find today.
You sound like a pretty advanced user of ISO 7185 Pascal, we should keep in touch.
I am at samiam@moorecad.com.
Scott Franco
--------- Original Message --------- Subject: Re: Re: Plan to Update GPC From: "Thomas Schneider" schneidt@mail.nih.gov Date: 8/13/20 11:23 am To: "scott andrew franco" samiam@moorecad.com Cc: "gpc@gnu.de" gpc@gnu.de, "schneidt@mail.nih.gov" schneidt@mail.nih.gov
Scott:
Yes, I would not mind a decent Mac OS compiler as well. I used to think I would move all of my work to MacOS, generally being a better OS that the others, but these days I am to heavily involved with Linux to do that. In any case, I have all three types of machines (and then some) here at my house, Windows, Linux and Mac, so its just a matter of what I need at the moment. In any case, I have sympathy for your position.
Though I'm now using macOS for all my machines, I'm not wedded to it. If Apple keeps doing stupid things (like preventing one from doing ls in ~/.Trash/ !!!) then eventually I'll be forced to migrate away to Linux. I avoid the evil empire.
FPC certainly qualifies as a cross platform OS, and I believe it runs well on MacOS??
It does run, but because they have a legacy of bells and whistles it doesn't comple vanilla Pascal from 1982 (ISO 7185?) ... Since p2c will compile bad code and produce garbage without warning (!) I use FPC as an error checker and then if the program passes I give it to p2c. The script for this is not public. The FPC folks are working on getting my programs to compile properly so eventually I may be able to use that.
mode, but locked you into "ISO 7185 jail", ie, made it inconvienent or impossible to use their extensions unless you drop the option, in which case most of your source would not compile, etc. Perhaps someone with FPC experience could weigh in here.
I have intentionally avoided system dependent extensions (except for date/time) and as a result my programs written 30+ years ago still compile ... I built a 'module' system that uses comments to mark sections of code and inserts the sections from a library into a program. This way I'm not dependent on compiler dependent insertion commands. https://alum.mit.edu/www/toms/delila/module.html
Your association with P2C interests me. I used that to translate Pascal libraries for Petit-Ami (another one of my projects). The tool is awful. It crashes if you give it any sources that are even slightly wrong, and the (original) author takes pains to mention in the documentation that he knows quite well about this and does not, in fact, care. I wonder if you had improved that situation?
No, I provide the original with minor changes only. https://alum.mit.edu/www/toms/pascalp2c.html
"I write scripts that call compilers with the parameters needed to compile my programs. If the name of the compiler changes then the scripts break."
Well, ok, but note that the name for my project is Pascal-P5, has been so for 10 years, and will always be named that. Pascal-P6 is a whole 'nuther beast entirely. At my development rate (glacial) I don't think anyone is going to need to rewrite their scripts a lot.
Ok, cool.
Tom
Thomas D. Schneider, Ph.D. Senior Investigator National Institutes of Health National Cancer Institute Center for Cancer Research RNA Biology Laboratory Biological Information Theory Group Frederick, Maryland 21702-1201 schneidt@mail.nih.gov https://alum.mit.edu/www/toms
On 13/08/2020 18:34, scott andrew franco wrote:
these days I am to heavily involved with Linux ....
Hi Scott,
If you are using Ubuntu or Debian, you might be able to use these. https://launchpad.net/~ueter/+archive/ubuntu/gpc-3.4/+packages
Just download the latest .deb https://launchpad.net/~ueter/+archive/ubuntu/gpc-3.4/+files/gpc-3.4_20070904...
Regards, Peter
Yes, I use 64 bit GPC, my P5 site contains instructions to install it and a binary. The latter is because the online .tz is missing, so I just provide the binary. It also needs some setup fixes these days.
Scott
--------- Original Message --------- Subject: Re: Plan to Update GPC From: "Peter" peter@pblackman.plus.com Date: 8/15/20 5:00 am To: "gpc@gnu.de" gpc@gnu.de
On 13/08/2020 18:34, scott andrew franco wrote:
these days I am to heavily involved with Linux ....
Hi Scott,
If you are using Ubuntu or Debian, you might be able to use these. https://launchpad.net/~ueter/+archive/ubuntu/gpc-3.4/+packages
Just download the latest .deb https://launchpad.net/~ueter/+archive/ubuntu/gpc-3.4/+files/gpc-3.4_20070904...
Regards, Peter
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Thomas Schneider